This just in by way of Andrew:
In a very recent interview, Dweezil said a live FZ concert circa 1976 will be released soon featuring Terry Bozzio and “a female singer”. Word is, Vaulternative will issue a CD of the Spectrum Theater in Philadelphia show from 29 October that year. Band was FZ, Bozzio, Ray White, Patrick O’Hearn, Eddie Jobson and Bianca Thornton.
Set list was:
- Purple Lagoon intro
- Stink-Foot
- Poodle Lecture
- Dirty Love
- Wind Up Workin’ In A Gas Station
- Tryin’ To Grow A Chin
- The Torture Never Stops
- City Of Tiny Lites (incl. The Sanzini Brothers Pyramid Trick)
- You Didn’t Try To Call Me
- Manx Needs Women
- Titties ‘N’ Beer
- Black Napkins
- Advance Romance
- Honey, Don’t You Want A Man Like Me?
- Rudy Wants To Buy Yez A Drink
- Would You Go All The Way?
- Daddy Daddy Daddy
- What Kind Of Girl Do You Think We Are?
- Dinah-Moe Humm
- Purple Lagoon reprise
- Stranded In The Jungle
- Find Her Finer
- Camarillo Brillo
- Muffin Man
- Purple Lagoon outro.
No word on the 40th anniversary edition of Cruisin’ With Ruben yet.
If the impending Spectrum Theater release is anything like the October 24th, 1976, early show at the Boston Music Hall featuring Bianca Odin Thornton on vocals and keyboards and Eddie Jobson on violin and keyboards – I can almost guarantee it will be an absolute hit with Zappa fans. There are so many high points at the Boston Music Hall show it difficult to decide where to start.
Thornton’s amazing vocals (and background vocals) give such Zappa classics as “Dirty Love”, “Wind Up Workin’ In A Gas Station”, “The Torture Never Stops” and “You Didn’t Try To Call Me” a completely new feel. And Eddie Jobson’s violin, especially on “City Of Tiny Lights” and “Black Napkins” is incredibly sublime.
Just the thought of this concert, or one very much like it mastered to contemporary audio standards, makes this Zappa freak drool.
Gotta agree with you there, Urbangraffito. I’ve been jonesing for a copy of this concert for about four years, ever since I first heard the poignant and intensified reworking of ‘You Didn’t Try To Call Me,’ from the Boston show you cited. The typically twenty minute-long renditions of ‘Black Napkins,’ will definitely be a treat, too; along with all the other fun vocal numbers the show is interlarded with.
Question of course is: what kind of dynamic range will this release have? 😉
[quote comment=”7110″]Question of course is: what kind of dynamic range will this release have? ;)[/quote]
Let me be the first on my block to declare,
THIS RELEASE REALLY F’ing BLOWS!!!
[quote comment=”7112″][quote comment=”7110″]Question of course is: what kind of dynamic range will this release have? ;)[/quote]
Let me be the first on my block to declare,
THIS RELEASE REALLY F’ing BLOWS!!![/quote]
…and another thing,
Gail and Joe and Dweez and the rest of them @#%$***!!!
FRANK WOULD NEVER ALLOW THIS TO HAPPEN!!!
[quote comment=”7112″][quote comment=”7110″]Question of course is: what kind of dynamic range will this release have? ;)[/quote]
Let me be the first on my block to declare,
THIS RELEASE REALLY F’ing BLOWS!!![/quote]
Bob, dear, did you take your meds this morning? This is not even a proper release yet, it’s a rumour (but wait, I see what you just did there!).
Nice, nice – I’m really interested in Bozzio’s drum sound, because I simply don’t like it on OZ, I like him whan he’s in a bigger lineup. Which is surprising, because in a smaller group he gets more place to play, but anyway, he doesn’t play too interesting things on OZ – maybe here.
*
About the setlist: nice, long one, I’m expecting great long solos – but could do without “Poodle Lecture”. 🙂
(Maybe we’ll get the “original” Titties & Beer here, because on ZINY one verse was edited out.)
“Rudy Wants To Buy Yez A Drink “”Would You Go All The Way? ”
“Daddy Daddy Daddy ” are featured on that setlist… maybe they are the version featuring Flo and Eddie as guests? I’ve that show, but I remember it being from a different date, I don’t knoe… maybe they mashed-up two concerts of teh same tour? Maybe not…
no, there aren’t Flo & Eddie here, these songs were part of the repertoire of this touring band as well.
[quote comment=”7116″]About the setlist: nice, long one, I’m expecting great long solos – but could do without “Poodle Lecture”.[/quote]
One can no more “do without” the “Poodle Lecture” than doing without “Stinkfoot”, Balint – they are just too era specific songs to do without (though agreeably, some versions are better than others).
What about a DVD of the show?! I remember seeing a very brief clip of Bianca singing ‘Dirty Love’ somewhere…
Oh yes, Bianca is such a brilliant vocalist. Pity she didn’t last longer with Zappa.
[quote comment=”7133″]What about a DVD of the show?![/quote]
Is it up yet?
[quote comment=”7133″]What about a DVD of the show?![/quote]
What about a twofer w/ ROXY???
[quote comment=”7152″][quote comment=”7133″]What about a DVD of the show?![/quote]
What about a twofer w/ ROXY???[/quote]
That would tempt ANY Zappa fan to part with their hard-earned cash!
[quote comment=”7152″][quote comment=”7133″]What about a DVD of the show?![/quote]
What about a twofer w/ ROXY???[/quote]
I hear a BOX SETis in the works!!!
(hehe, after these wyears a Zappa fan learns to be patient. “Roxy? New album? Awreety-awright, we’ll see (slowly sips from his hot tea again).
(BTW: “son of Roxy” keeps on continuing the old habit of not-to-be-releasedness, or at least it’s a “bit” late already.)
I am currently working with them to help produce:
FZ ARCHIVES vol I
[quote comment=”7160″]FZ ARCHIVES vol I[/quote]
Will there be a vol II?
[quote comment=”7158″](BTW: “son of Roxy” keeps on continuing the old habit of not-to-be-releasedness, or at least it’s a “bit” late already.)[/quote]
Shame on you Killuglyradio.com, you scared that dvd right back in its hole! Was there a single positive comment about that release (on any forum)?
[quote comment=”7162″][quote comment=”7160″]FZ ARCHIVES vol I[/quote]
Will there be a vol II?[/quote]
My guess will be Yes, if it’s anything like the Joe’s ___assage series.
Just announced in an unreleased interview: Release date c.2045–right after Making of MOFO (the re-remastered version).
[quote comment=”7158″](hehe, after these wyears a Zappa fan learns to be patient. “Roxy? New album? Awreety-awright, we’ll see (slowly sips from his hot tea again).
(BTW: “son of Roxy” keeps on continuing the old habit of not-to-be-releasedness, or at least it’s a “bit” late already.)[/quote]
If there was ever an award for ineptitude in operating a record label, Balint, we both know who would receive it, don’t we? I’ve long since given up on believing gossip and rumors about promised releases, and taken on a “wait-and-see” attitude instead. Like the little boy who cried wolf too often, much of what is promised lately seems to be so much hot steam, rather than the tea itself.
[quote comment=”7163″][quote comment=”7158″](BTW: “son of Roxy” keeps on continuing the old habit of not-to-be-releasedness, or at least it’s a “bit” late already.)[/quote]
Shame on you Killuglyradio.com, you scared that dvd right back in its hole! Was there a single positive comment about that release (on any forum)?
[quote comment=”7162″][quote comment=”7160″]FZ ARCHIVES vol I[/quote]
Will there be a vol II?[/quote]
My guess will be Yes, if it’s anything like the Joe’s ___assage series.[/quote]
You can’t blame KUR for whether or not a CD or DVD gets released. I mean, what sort of business operates this way? Makes promises and hints to a fanbase then doesn’t fulfill them? The number of excuses are running very, very thin. The one amazing thing to come out of it all, though, is the vast patience the Zappa fanbase appears to have for just about any amount of shenanigans…
Is it up yet?
What I know is this.
Close to 30 years ago Frank Zappa taught me a lesson
on how we can use our eyes and ears or read it an weep.
All these so called fans that wear their complaints like a union label remind me of some Republican wielding no social health car war flag.
From the way I see it Barry it is the fans of negativity that
have a dental hygiene dilemma.
Many in this community listen to mass quantities of Concert AUDs where any one of them may very well be something that could be held up to the would Frank ever have released this magnifying glass.
I understand how many do like listening to that AUD stuff but excuse me if I get a bit weepy regarding inferior standards and that the artist is not getting their deserved financial compensation for any unreleased compilation of their work.
From my perspective when the ZFT put out a Full Concert on Vaulternative I use eyes and ears and enjoy. I don’t question if Frank would ever have released that particular show. To do so would be totally ridiculous since Frank was editing from reels from a given tour or as with YCDTOSA looking at so many given production modules that he documented for us in the liner notes. Now as technology changed after his departure Frank may very well by this point stared some(operative keyword SOME) Full Show release schedule but there is no sense over analyzing what Frank may or may not have done with selecting vault content.
What’s so very interesting about Vaulternative is their choice of material that has had little to not official or at times even no AUD representation whatsoever. I appreciate these projects not only as a fine archive that gets treated with the finest kitchen anointment utensils but also a brick and mortar product that upholds integrity of artistic rights.
I is Poopmonger. I do not understand irony and have no sense of humor. Pity me.
[quote comment=”7170″]What’s so very interesting about Vaulternative is their choice of material that has had little to not official or at times even no AUD representation whatsoever.[/quote]
I like that you used the word “interesting” for the Company’s strategy. 🙂
Oh BTW: I just remembered Joe’s Menage – isn’t it JUST THE SAME as we can hear on FZ:OZ?…
Sorry Father, people here arent ONLY tpo complain, but mostly to talk, to discuss things. And its MORE interesting when you have your very own point of view, might it be sometimes against the “official” statements sometimes.
You know, those ad-like preachings tend to be boring sometimes. 😉
(just one step forward: Isn’t FZ:OZ just the same lineup and setlist that we know from the Eyes of Oasaka (etc)? Isn’t the VERY SAME Rollo on both Quaudiophiliac and the One Shot Deal? Isn’t the VERY SAME recording of Stevie’s Spanking and Easy Meat and The Illinois Enema Bandit on the Torture DVD and the Dub Room CD (and One Shot Deal)?…)
I’m sorry but… I liked Imaginery diseases, I liked FZ:OZ, I liked Buffalo, I liked Grand Wazoo, I liked Freak Out Mo and Lumpy Gravy MO, liked the Joe’s number with the pre-mothers “demos”, did’nt liked the poor quality of VHS recorde Torture never stops and Dub Room, so I welcomed the dvd editions…
So, ok, Roxy is’nt arrived yet but I can not say they’re doing just plain nothing… some operations may be dubious – so most of you say so it must be true – and I also hate some behaviours… but the joke about waiting 2045 is just unfunny.
Robert Fripp is the man who’s reissuing for the sixth time – the fourth on cd! – the same In the court of Crimson King and that tought to play bass to Boz because he needed to go on tour. (don’t ask me why I’m connecting these two things).
So, love to everyone, I just wanted to say that just because we are millions, then we have right.
Excusez-moi my bad english, I’m just another average italian 🙂 .
[quote comment=”7173″][quote comment=”7170″]What’s so very interesting about Vaulternative is their choice of material that has had little to not official or at times even no AUD representation whatsoever.[/quote]
I like that you used the word “interesting” for the Company’s strategy. 🙂
Oh BTW: I just remembered Joe’s Menage – isn’t it JUST THE SAME as we can hear on FZ:OZ?…
Sorry Father, people here arent ONLY tpo complain, but mostly to talk, to discuss things. And its MORE interesting when you have your very own point of view, might it be sometimes against the “official” statements sometimes.
You know, those ad-like preachings tend to be boring sometimes. 😉
(just one step forward: Isn’t FZ:OZ just the same lineup and setlist that we know from the Eyes of Oasaka (etc)? Isn’t the VERY SAME Rollo on both Quaudiophiliac and the One Shot Deal? Isn’t the VERY SAME recording of Stevie’s Spanking and Easy Meat and The Illinois Enema Bandit on the Torture DVD and the Dub Room CD (and One Shot Deal)?…)[/quote]
I don’t believe I ever stated it is the ZFTs strategy.
While I do need to be careful regarding these Monday Morning Zappateer Quarterbacks we are not talking about Joe Namath and Super Bowl III.
Your comments of redundancy is ridiculous and the ZFT have in the case with Buffalo provided something that to the best of my knowledge had not been a AUD community recycled polished turd.
No one is making claims that each and every Vaulternative release will be something that the AUD community never got a sniff of but the selection so far has done a good job of putting out live material that has not had mass exposure in the Official Catalog.
Where you comment on the Rollo arrangement on Quaudiophiliac and One Shot Deal this is another fine example of a given so called fan digging deep to complain on something and anything. One could easily on a positive note comment the inclusion on two separate formats where one was DVD-A and the other was CD. Certainly there are many consumers that just never went out and purchased a DVD-A player and surround sound system. I don’t feel the need to do an A/B comparison but even if they were the exact same arrangement the media differences alone certainly justify including it
in the OSD release.
And for a fan to sit here and complain about duplication of songs on Dub Room and The Torture Never Stops DVD it was Frank Zappa who put together each project. Franks projects deserve to be represented how Frank Zappa made them. Hopefully as hinted at a full Halloween 81′ video production comes out but beforehand I will always stand by Franks completed works deserving distribution.
So to reiterate on one point, I do find it interesting that the ZFT in their choice of material have put out some material that is not only unique in comparison to the Official Catalog but at times is not part of that 1,000 and counting AUD trade material.
Now when looking at a project the level of uniqueness does not always mean every single aspect of the project is unique but certainly as with Buffalo there are several layers of uniqueness.
Then again we could all be talking about a full show that is really popular in the AUD community. If and when such a project gets released be assured I am going to ask if each and every person that freely traded that item went ahead and purchased the Official Project.
Joe’s Menage,
The liner notes themselves explain the Compilation, Reconstruction & Vaultmeisterment of the Cassette fro this CD release an this is pretty much be classified as an FZ created item as opposed to reels the ZFT complied to represent a Full Concert Vaulternative Release.
zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz…
Will there be a recording of all of you inside the piano?
For Trendmonger:
>
shall we take ourselves seriously?
Graffit On The Wall, I would surely welcome a piecemeal breakdown and analysis of Vaulternative and other posthumous releases, along with the myriad of unfulfilled and broken promises.
Certainly, Balint does make some very relevant points concerning tracks being reissued again again. You say you find it “interesting that the ZFT in their choice of material have put out some material that is not only unique in comparison to the Official Catalog but at times is not part of that 1,000 and counting AUD trade material.” I tend to differ. When they officially release “The Torture Never Stops” on ‘One Shot Deal’ that was from an already traded FZ show. Of course, that is their prerogative to do so, but it seems a tad sleazy to me to officially release a track most collectors of Zappa concerts have already heard. What is next? Entire concerts? And what does this tell the average fan about the ZFT, Vaulternative and their choices?
Another point I believe that Balint was bringing up was the massive piecemeal deconstruction of “The Big One”, the October 31st, 1978 Palladium, NYC shows that make up ‘Halloween’ et al. Now this was a show on par with that of ‘Zappa In New York’ and in my humble opinion, should have been released as a multiple live album/CD/DVD instead of being gutted as it was.
Let it be understood that Vaulternative is not Zappa produced. That said, the ZFT need to be even more clear than they have been – instead of filling liner notes with second hand Zappa-speak, let them try being forthright for a change.
Delivering what they promise would be a fine start.
Straight talk, just imagine it.
[quote comment=”7188″]Graffit On The Wall, I would surely welcome a piecemeal breakdown and analysis of Vaulternative and other posthumous releases,
…….[/quote]
I will gladly dialog on what you are commenting on another time but until I have time to properly get into detailed critical analysis of that may I suggest you investigate a project that FZ completed before it became trade AUD or VID material is first and foremost an FZ project.
So if you or anyone talks of The Dub Room Special and The Torture Never Stops DVDs they are projects Frank Zappa completed not something we should be discussing as some AUD item regardless if the community trades that material.
One other topic you mentioned regarding the 1978 Halloween Shows.
The Halloween DVD-A on DTS.
Yes it would be nice to get an all inclusive 1978 Halloween Project.
Years ago I adressed Gail Zappa in creating an all inclussive Happy Halloween Everybody Project from 1978 to possibly including a massive project documenting all FZ Halloween Vault Material .
In respect to the DVD-A I think it would be harsh to not take a closer look at the label it was released on and what the overall feasibility was. I have went over this before but I really do not think that DTS wanted anything more than a single disk fro that project. Sure we as fans want a massive project but the Halloween DVD-A project falls in line with a really fine consolodated perspective of what the 1978 Halloween Run represented. The DTS 96/24 Master is exceptional and I rate this as the highest fidelity Zappa ever released. It really brings me back to the feeling of the show I saw Oct 27,1978. Remember ther are several audio masters on that single disk so space limitation for the project on a singe DVD-A coudl be a big part of what was included.
Need to go but I will gladly dialog on your ?????s
[quote comment=”7189″]
In respect to the DVD-A I think it would be harsh to not take a closer look at the label it was released on and what the overall feasibility was. I have went over this before but I really do not think that DTS wanted anything more than a single disk fro that project.[/quote]
And because of space problems, it would be a questionable format to fully represent that material. I get the novelty of DVD-A, but you cant just slap a tease like that out there on a single disk WITH enough room for two videos, I might add.
It was piss poor decision making on Gail’s part. She probably thought that an unreleased recording of ‘fun’ songs would appeal to hard core fans and new comers, but it proved an alienating and largely ignored release.
If they do release the whole Philly show, even if it has to be patched with boot-filler, it will be a delightful listen because it was a fabulous performance.
[quote comment=”7190″][quote comment=”7189″]
In respect to the DVD-A I think it would be harsh to not take a closer look at the label it was released on and what the overall feasibility was. I have went over this before but I really do not think that DTS wanted anything more than a single disk fro that project.[/quote]
And because of space problems, it would be a questionable format to fully represent that material. I get the novelty of DVD-A, but you cant just slap a tease like that out there on a single disk WITH enough room for two videos, I might add.
It was piss poor decision making on Gail’s part. She probably thought that an unreleased recording of ‘fun’ songs would appeal to hard core fans and new comers, but it proved an alienating and largely ignored release.
If they do release the whole Philly show, even if it has to be patched with boot-filler, it will be a delightful listen because it was a fabulous performance.[/quote]
I have a brief moment and as this is a topic regarding a Philadelphia Spectrum Concert FZ concert circa 1976 it is a real shame for fanatical overindulgence regarding so many other derailing issues but
as going down the garden psycho path dictate terms such as video and novelty have nothing to do with DVD-A format.
When you talk of video space regarding a DVD-A project that is one prime example where video space in conjunction with that format is preposterous. DVD-A has primarily been used to deliver audio in a variety of formats. Sometimes a little onus video is thrown in but multiple audio formats is the norm.
Now teh novelty factor.
DVD-A including DTS 96/24 masters are not a novelty.
DTS 96/24 is the holy grail of high fidelity audio.
Unfortunately the ear bud generation could care less about fidelity
so the two , count them two DTS releases are primarily targeted for an audience that gives a shit about fidelity and surround sound.
In December of 2003 ten years after Frank Zappa left for his final tour he posthumously was given the SMA Surround Pioneer Award.
The ZFTs two releases are only following what Frank Zappa started a very long time ago. Fans that bake in terms of novelty show little to no consideration as to what was important to Frank Zappa.
http://www.surroundpro.com/2003/surround2003/sma.shtml
[quote comment=”7192″][quote comment=”7190″][quote comment=”7189″]
In respect to the DVD-A I think it would be harsh to not take a closer look at the label it was released on and what the overall feasibility was. I have went over this before but I really do not think that DTS wanted anything more than a single disk fro that project.[/quote]
And because of space problems, it would be a questionable format to fully represent that material. I get the novelty of DVD-A, but you cant just slap a tease like that out there on a single disk WITH enough room for two videos, I might add.
It was piss poor decision making on Gail’s part. She probably thought that an unreleased recording of ‘fun’ songs would appeal to hard core fans and new comers, but it proved an alienating and largely ignored release.
If they do release the whole Philly show, even if it has to be patched with boot-filler, it will be a delightful listen because it was a fabulous performance.[/quote]
I have a brief moment and as this is a topic regarding a Philadelphia Spectrum FZ Concert FZ circa 1976 it is a real shame for fanatical overindulgence regarding so many other derailing issues but
as going down the garden psycho path dictates terms such as video and novelty have (correction noted) LITTLE TO NOTHING to do with DVD-A format.
When you talk of video space regarding a DVD-A project that is one prime example where video space in conjunction with the DVD-A format is preposterous. DVD-A has primarily been used to deliver audio in a variety of formats. Sometimes some little bonus video content is thrown in the project but multiple audio formats is the norm.
Now the Novelty Factor?
DVD-A including their DTS 96/24 masters are not a novelty.
DTS 96/24 is the holy grail of high fidelity audio.
Unfortunately the ear bud generation could care less about fidelity
so the two , count them two DTS releases are primarily targeted for an audience that gives a shit about fidelity and surround sound.
In December of 2003, ten years after Frank Zappa left for his final tour he posthumously was given the SMA Surround Pioneer Award.
The TWO ZFTs releases are only following what Frank Zappa started a very long time ago. Fans that bake in terms of novelty show little to no consideration as to what was important to Frank Zappa.
It’s a shame the DVD-A market did not warrant the feasibility for
for the production of THE BIG ONE. Even if it had we don’t know for sure if all tape reels sans gaps of that event exist in working condition. Spare Me Please in the mentioning of FZ:OZ as AUD
had been used to help fix gaps t complete the project for AUDs are not worthy in mentioning in creation of a DTS 96/24 MIX.
http://www.surroundpro.com/2003/surround2003/sma.shtml%5B/quote%5D
[quote comment=”7192″]I have a brief moment and as this is a topic regarding a Philadelphia Spectrum Concert FZ concert circa 1976 it is a real shame for fanatical overindulgence regarding so many other derailing issues but as going down the garden psycho path dictate terms such as video and novelty have nothing to do with DVD-A format.
When you talk of video space regarding a DVD-A project that is one prime example where video space in conjunction with that format is preposterous. DVD-A has primarily been used to deliver audio in a variety of formats. Sometimes a little onus video is thrown in but multiple audio formats is the norm.
[/quote]
I have absolutely no clue as to what that means AND I enjoy reading Derrida, a man who doesnt shy away from being convoluted. Mind reiterating this bit for me?
I fail to see how knocking this AWARD WINNING divergence into dvd-a, somehow is an attack on Zappa’s work/legacy. I hear he composed and played the guitar a little bit too.
All I was saying is that the appeal of the dvd-a system is the 5 speaker surround sound, plus some audio improvements over the more economically accessable (CHEAPER) SACD.
So the advantages of “Halloween” would come down to a) surround sound, b) slight audio improvements and c) the pickchas and mooovies.
With ‘b’ not being too much of an issue (music on cd format doesnt mean it sounds like shit). Which leaves (a) and (b). Sure it’s cool, but that’s a Hell of a lot of money (inc. the system) to watch a couple clips and hear Bozzio’s thumps race around yer room.
Sure, it’s a neat release and perhaps it’s not a novelty (you couldnt call it a cheap trick with the cash you’d throw to set this up) but you could get more of the show on a multidisc release on a cheaper format.
BUT you’d have to give up 3 of the speakers and have to look at the track pictures in the liner notes… most likely with greasy Zappanese captions which tell fuck all.
BTW regardless of intent, napster and torrents would also stand as Zappa’s legacy, n’est pas?
*forget that napster bit at the end… it’s nonsensical…
FYI, Vinnie thumps.
Who moved my cheez?
FAACK, you’re right Plooker!
I really have no problem with the various formats that Zappa has been released in (and I do not see any of these formats as novelties, either) Graffiti on the Wall. Whether or not a particular fan has access to a particular player, like myself, I can access one if necessary. To me, this is one of the positive aspects of Vaulternative (whereby they carry on Zappa’s legacy). Otherwise, in this age of audio conversion, it’s relatively easy to garner oneself an audio version of choice to suffice until such time as access to players are available.
Other positive aspects of Vaulternative is their releasing of mostly pristine archival material (as a Zappa fan, this is what I live for), entire concerts from a given era in Zappa’s career (which were not represented in the official catalog). These are titles that every Zappa fan should purchase regardless of their feelings toward the ZFT generally.
As I’ve mentioned, my only qualms surface when they deviate and release titles of questionable archival (and audio) value such as ‘Joe’s Domage’ – otherwise, the other titles in the series are really worthwhile.
Yes, I’m certainly not going to judge Vaulternative by the same standards as Zappa’s official catalogue – and neither will I make it personal attack on the Zappa family.
I think Zappa fan’s are rabidly opinionated, especially concerning the posthumous releases, because they have been so invested (both personally and financially) in the man’s music throughout the years.
As I’ve often suggested, the Zappa fan is an entirely different beast from any other music fan (on so many levels).
You made some nice points below and while I would gladly comment on each and every one whereby even adding cross analysis fro example as to format conversions of a DVD-A with 96/24 down to 44/16 is more of a so called novelty of minimally listening to a project in it’s minimalist form.
Where you previously had stated
“Graffit On The Wall, I would surely welcome a piecemeal breakdown and analysis of Vaulternative and other posthumous releases, along with the myriad of unfulfilled and broken promises”
This is an example of where an internet Blog format tends to go down the garden psyco path. Every now and then websites take measures to improve publication and interaction. No extreme criticism on the publisher for there are some nice topics here. Additionally, not in any way shape or form am I suggesting you have psychological issues but a BLOG & REPLY Scenario is full of holes in comparison to a news group which minimally lets people start new topics where such questions can be extrapolated instead of derailing a topic. Any one of us can at any time derail from a topic for so many given reasons but I feel it is important with this issue to stay focused and look at all the positive of the speculated project. Many do tend to derail
While we all sit here and ponder the Oct 29,1976 Philadelphia Spectrum performance questions of piecemeal breakdown and analysis of Vaulternative ……. tend to derail from so many positive thoughts that quickly come to mind. This morning I quickly thought of10 FOOD FOR TOUGHT Issues regarding that concert. The are all over at the Zappa.com News Group.
If this Newsgrop has a BLOG topic on piecemeal breakdown and analysis of Vaulternative I will gladly get into detailed dialog there but fro now here is some FOOD FOR THOUGHT on the speculated release.
1) Philadelhia Spectrum performance date
Oct 29,1976 is the release date of Zoot Allures.
Not only is this a first Full Promo Concert of the like
but this is the first tour with Bozzio/O’Hearn as the Rhythm Section.
2) The day before FZ performs Black Napkins on The Mike Douglas Show.
Pig Nose and live show amp comparisons.
Frank Zappa – The Mike Douglas Show Oct 28,1976
➡ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4dXTifyOu3Y
➡ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8i-ilfShB0g
3) How long before fanatical complaints of WUWIAGS rehash complaints?
4) A/B Fidelity Comparisons WUWIAGS YCDTOSA Vol.6 & this release.
5) Stranded In The Jungle – FZ Cover of The Jay Hawks, 1956 hit. One of the playful Cover Variety numbers.
6) Arrangement comparisons of similar titles of Zappa NY recorded December 76′.
7) Arrangement comparisons of COTL – This is the premiere tour for this song.
8) Advance Romance – 4th Tour performed Bozzio/Ohearn, Ohearn Solo, Bianca Vocals, hidden arrangement surprises, FZ Solo.
9) Overall Show Arrangement – Purple lagoon
10) Arrangement and Vocal Comparisons of Chunga’s Revenge & 200 Motels material.
BONUS How long before the WUWIAGS Manny The Camper White Gas & White Fish arguments pop up again?
[quote comment=”7206″]I really have no problem with the various formats that Zappa has been released in (and I do not see any of these formats as novelties, either) Graffiti on the Wall. Whether or not a particular fan has access to a particular player, like myself, I can access one if necessary. To me, this is one of the positive aspects of Vaulternative (whereby they carry on Zappa’s legacy). Otherwise, in this age of audio conversion, it’s relatively easy to garner oneself an audio version of choice to suffice until such time as access to players are available.
Other positive aspects of Vaulternative is their releasing of mostly pristine archival material (as a Zappa fan, this is what I live for), entire concerts from a given era in Zappa’s career (which were not represented in the official catalog). These are titles that every Zappa fan should purchase regardless of their feelings toward the ZFT generally.
As I’ve mentioned, my only qualms surface when they deviate and release titles of questionable archival (and audio) value such as ‘Joe’s Domage’ – otherwise, the other titles in the series are really worthwhile.
Yes, I’m certainly not going to judge Vaulternative by the same standards as Zappa’s official catalogue – and neither will I make it personal attack on the Zappa family.
I think Zappa fan’s are rabidly opinionated, especially concerning the posthumous releases, because they have been so invested (both personally and financially) in the man’s music throughout the years.
As I’ve often suggested, the Zappa fan is an entirely different beast from any other music fan (on so many levels).[/quote]
Now he’s polluting two forums.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TnSo7-ElUXo
Thanks for the piecemeal analysis of the given topic, Graffiti on the Wall. Quite refreshing. Of course, you are right in regards to the subject of sticking to the topic (or attempting to do so). In fact, given any thread, at any time, many simultaneous discussions can and do go on. That’s just the nature of the beast (the internet Blog format). So I appreciate it all the more when well informed and educated posters decide to speak up. They do rise above the usual cacophony, believe me. Yet there will always be those who wish to rehash old complaints and aging arguments, too. As an internet blog, we have to take the good with the bad, and attempt to serve everybody.
By the way, when I first suggested “I would surely welcome a piecemeal breakdown and analysis of Vaulternative and other posthumous releases, along with the myriad of unfulfilled and broken promises” it was an open invitation to anyone, not just yourself. Like any forum, every once in a while it is important to focus the groups thought back onto the thread at hand (and this is my meagre means of doing so – since I am not only a poster here at KUR but a participant as well, and like to see some attempt at analysis at least some of the time).
NOW, BACK TO THE THREAD AT HAND:
[quote comment=”7210″]You made some nice points below and while I would gladly comment on each and every one whereby even adding cross analysis fro example as to format conversions of a DVD-A with 96/24 down to 44/16 is more of a so called novelty of minimally listening to a project in it’s minimalist form.
[/quote]
Agreed. Imagine my awe and sheer joy when I finally listened to Quaudiophiliac and Halloween on a DVD-A capable sound system.
[quote comment=”7210″]
1. Philadelhia Spectrum performance date
Oct 29,1976 is the release date of Zoot Allures.
Not only is this a first Full Promo Concert of the like
but this is the first tour with Bozzio/O’Hearn as the Rhythm Section.
[/quote]
My own listening to the October 24th, 1976, early show at the Boston Music Hall (a show, by the way, which I return to again and again) tells me a number of things about this line-up. Bozzio was allowed a far more wider participation than that of drummer and background vocals. O’hearn’s bass is upfront early on.
[quote comment=”7210″]2. The day before FZ performs Black Napkins on The Mike Douglas Show.
Pig Nose and live show amp comparisons.
Frank Zappa – The Mike Douglas Show Oct 28,1976[/quote]
Interesting comparisons between these two versions. Though the fidelity of the The Mike Douglas Show version is understandably poor. Myself, I prefer the Boston Music Hall version simply for its wonderful variety (and my guess is that this version will most likely what to expect from The Spectrum show) including FZ’s solo, Bianca’s scat singing, and Jobson’s violin. These three elements make it exceptional in my opinion. “I’m glad you’re all enjoying this,” FZ says at the 4:30 mark.
[quote comment=”7210″]
3. How long before fanatical complaints of WUWIAGS rehash complaints?
4. A/B Fidelity Comparisons WUWIAGS YCDTOSA Vol.6 & this release.
[/quote]
Are Zappa fans really that fanatical? I find the fidelity comparisons between the Boston Music Hall version of WUWIAGS and the YCDTOSA Vol.6 version highly interesting. Recording material live from show to show presents a variety of unforeseen problems. How they are solved each night, for each show is evidenced in the recordings themselves (why are Zappa field recordings so interesting to fans anyway? They offer us glimpses into the process). But complaints? Not in the slightest. I’m looking forward to a third version to compare with the other two.
[quote comment=”7210″]5. Stranded In The Jungle – FZ Cover of The Jay Hawks, 1956 hit. One of the playful Cover Variety numbers.
[/quote]
I’m looking forward to the release of this track. The only other version I have heard have been of really poor quality (Miami Matinee Vol. II).
[quote comment=”7210″]6. Arrangement comparisons of similar titles of Zappa NY recorded December 76′.
7. Arrangement comparisons of COTL – This is the premiere tour for this song.
[/quote]
There will always be comparisons. Why else would someone collect “upteenth” versions of “Sofa”, “City of Tiny Lites”, “Holiday In Berlin” besides the sheer wonderment in their musicality, if not to compare them all?
Arrangement comparisons are, indeed, part of what makes Zappa such an intriguing composer and musician. Comparing one version’s internal arrangement with another version, at least with FZ, tells the informed and interested listener that there is much more going on within the composition, and from song to song, than in much of contemporary music.
I especially adore premiere tours for songs because my avid listening through the years has taught me that these songs rarely just appear – Poof! – but evolve from other songs and solos. And even when the finished song, in this case, COTL, makes it’s premiere during a given tour, various versions are bound to appear.
[quote comment=”7210″]8. Advance Romance – 4th Tour performed Bozzio/Ohearn, Ohearn Solo, Bianca Vocals, hidden arrangement surprises, FZ Solo.
9. Overall Show Arrangement – Purple lagoon
10. Arrangement and Vocal Comparisons of Chunga’s Revenge & 200 Motels material.
[/quote]
As I mentioned above (evolution of FZ songs), “Advance Romance” also evolves from the standard (Bongo Fury) version. FZ seemed to delight in keeping his compositions in a state of constant flux. The O’hearn bass solo in the Boston Music Hall version is fantastic.
I am highly interested in whether Purple Lagoon will be a full blown version, or as on Boston Music Hall, or simply a brief reprise of sorts — I suspect the latter, though, myself.
Bill Bartmann says Make Good Money Buying Bad Debts
[ snip — edited by Barry’s Imaginary Publisher ]
Just remember Bill Bartmann broke up the 88 band and bought the simmons drums used in 84. He is also the inventor of prostate cancer.
oh yeah, he started the loudness war too.