Email from the ZFT, christal clear and full of detail as usual (click to enlarge):
Yum & Cheap Thrills together at last. It’s 40+ years later for this Anniversary FZ AudioDocumentary in the project/object series. Cruise again with Ruben & The Jets playing all your favorite greasy love songs.
Pre-order at $21 a pop.
Update: This press-release has more info (thx Tim!):
Among additional tracks included are alternate mono mixes, an unreleased cover of “Valerie” which enjoyed heavy rotation in the Mothers’ concerts circa 1967 and a version of “Love of My Life” from Studio Z, bringing this CD from 40 minutes in the vinyl release to well over an hour of “the stuff of teen-age legend,” according to Gail Zappa’s text. “The thrall, the threnodies, the three and four part harmonies, the keys to the kingdom of sociological and panchromatic sexual edification.” The package, #3 in the FZ Audio Documentary Series, also contains Cheech Marin’s highly evocative liner notes recalling his 1968 audition for Zappa.
[quote comment=”9985″]Has anyone else received the E-mail from Barfko-Swill about the reuben reissue? No information whatsoever in it, but I thought it would merit some notice here. And yet strangely, it hasn’t.[/quote]
[quote comment=”9986″][quote comment=”9985″]Has anyone else received the E-mail from Barfko-Swill about the reuben reissue?[/quote]
Yes.[/quote]
Yes. No. Maybe so. As always, the ZFT is just so plum full of information to pass on. The gist: pre-order at $21. I’m just of the minority who likes to know exactly what it is I’m paying for. Track listings. Bonus tracks. That sort of thing.
“Dance You This!” indeed. The tablecloth in the ad does make me want some pizza.
yeah, i got it & the 2nd thing i did was to check here & see if anybody else had any more info. of course the 1st thing i did was order it. i think it was about this time last year that gail &/or joe said it would be ready in a couple months. i been waiting too long to worry about what’s not on it. i think the most important information, “the original ’68 vinyl mix” is what anybody who wants this, wants this for(?) i haven’t been disappointed w/ mofo or lumpy money, so i’ll take a chance. life’s too short. i love this shit!
Us old farts think the 1968 mix of Ruben & The Jets is better than the CD re-issue for which FZ re-recorded the bass and drums. The point being that this music of cretin simplicity sounds better when it has the appropriate cruddy bass and drum parts. I’ve never understood why FZ tinkered with it, but there you go. Either way, as I’ve got the 1968 vinyl LP already, I too would like to know what else is on this new release!
Same old smart ass shit from the Zappa Dorks. It’s a pre-order, silly limp dicks. Give it a rest.
I love Ruben, but have had a lovely LP transfer for the last 12 years from a friends mint and beautiful vinyl copy. So I need some incentive to fork out the bucks. They are doing a good job on these reissues, but if the ZFT could just get this stuff into the racks at my local record at a realistic price then I would be snapping them up… love the impulse buy when you are actually holding something in your hands. Over the net at that price not knowing what it is the urge is just not there.
I would have pre-ordered if the bonus tracks were the unreleased mono mix with fake 45 crackle. I’m probably going to buy this no matter what the bonus tracks are, but it’s nice to be certain.
The Stooges have released two mega-packages for pre-order this year; I pre-ordered both. Extremely expensive and the contents are pretty thin, but at least I know I’m being ripped off and exactly how badly I’m being ripped off.
[quote comment=”9994″]… but if the ZFT could just get this stuff into the racks at my local record at a realistic price then I would be snapping them up … [/quote]I would, too. How many copies do they sell when it comes to the latest posthumous releases? A few 1000s, or only a few 100s? I bet those items are uninteresting and to risky for any distributor nowadays.
Th.
this just in from:
http://www.shorefire.com/index.php?a=pressrelease&o=3792
Another Anniversary Frank Zappa Audio Documentary project/object celebrating Zappa’s ‘Cruising With Ruben and The Jets.’ The Doo Wop and Pachuco references mark this as Zappa’s homage to the music and culture of his teenage world in 1950’s Southern California. Contains Original 1968 Vinyl Stereo Mix, Interviews and Related Rarities.
“This is an album of greasy love songs cretin simplicity,” says Zappa in the original liner notes for the album he produced in 1968. “We made it because we really like this kind of music (just a bunch of old men with rock and roll clothes on sitting around the studio mumbling about the good old days).” Joe Travers calls this release a “UMRK (Utility Muffin Research Kitchen) Boss First” – the original stereo mix, the original release.
‘Greasy Love Songs’ is due out May 1st on Zappa Records. Yes. The digipak is made from Metalyzed Polyester foil paper.
Among additional tracks included are alternate mono mixes, an unreleased cover of “Valerie” which enjoyed heavy rotation in the Mothers’ concerts circa 1967 and a version of “Love of My Life” from Studio Z, bringing this CD from 40 minutes in the vinyl release to well over an hour of “the stuff of teen-age legend,” according to Gail Zappa’s text. “The thrall, the threnodies, the three and four part harmonies, the keys to the kingdom of sociological and panchromatic sexual edification.” The package, #3 in the FZ Audio Documentary Series, also contains Cheech Marin’s highly evocative liner notes recalling his 1968 audition for Zappa.
The Mothers of Invention per Frank Zappa’s original liner notes on ‘Cruising With Ruben and The Jets’:
Ray Collins: lead vocals
Frank Zappa: low grumbles, oo-wah lead guitar
Roy Estrada: high weazlings, dwaedy-doop electric bass
Jimmy Carl Black and/or Arthur Dyer Tripp III: lewd pulsating rhythm
Ian Underwood or Don Preston: redundant piano triplets
Motorhead Sherwood: baritone sax tambourine
Bunk Gardner and Ian Underwood: tenor alto saxes
I love that Zappa.com and Barfko-Swill are releasing more Zappa music, but I wish they would post the track listing on the web page or mp3 samples. It’s hard to get psyched up to spend $21 on a CD these days when you don’t know what you’re getting. I understand “Cheap Thrills”, but what is “Yum”? Can anyone help out? Thanks!
go to shorefire.com click on zappa family trust. i tried to post this 3 times can’t publish a copy & paste i guess, what?
[quote comment=”10004″]go to shorefire.com click on zappa family trust. i tried to post this 3 times can’t publish a copy & paste i guess, what?[/quote]
Your comment had to be manually approved because of the link you provided. I’ve updated the post with the press release information — thanks!
ok, thanks for the explanation. i’ll try to be more patient.
[quote comment=”9998″]I would, too. How many copies do they sell when it comes to the latest posthumous releases? A few 1000s, or only a few 100s? I bet those items are uninteresting and to risky for any distributor nowadays.[/quote]
Is that why Trout Mask Replica has been consistently inprint since 1970? Contrast this with the Zappa catalogue (the 93 masters) that have been sporadically out of print since the 70’s… blame it on distributors, but it comes down to the shenanigans by the rights holder (Frank included).
I would think that a market with dedicated (near religious) fanbase would be a tempting thing for a distributor to pick up on. There is no gamble, there is no need to generate new interest in the market. Really, they sell themselves…
Furthermore, as Chuck mentioned, there is no substitute for product on the shelf. An interested newbie should be able to walk into a music store and, maybe on a whim, pick up a random Zappa disc and go home and listen to it (yes, these things still happen in our post-torrent world) and see how they handle it.
NEW releases guarantee stock in shelves, while management will normally send back older stock (older releases) back to the distributor if not sold… this occurs with all bands, big and small… a strong distributor will help keep posthumous releases in the shelves so that newbies will always have product to discover.
Then they can bit torrent the rest of the catalogue 😉
http://www.zappa.com/messageboard/viewtopic.php?p=455222#p455222
I would rather the purity of the original albums were maintained – it would cost pence to make the extra tracks an extra disk….typical pennypinching ZFT behaviour. I bet they won’t even let me part-ex my dodgy 80s remix copy!
PS WTF happened to “Absolutely Free”?
An entirely instrumental version thereof would be lovely!
Oh dear. I just clicked on Thinman’s link to the Zappa Forum. This reminds me why I gave up the forum several years ago. Why are so many people so aggressive and abusive towards each other? And unnecessarily offensive? Relax. It’s only rock n’ roll! (otherwise known as ‘optional entertainment’)
But to get back to the point – I still wish the ZFT would sign up to a deal with a regular record label (say Rhino, or Nonesuch) and let them get the product out there properly marketed and more easily available. With an injection of capital, the ZFT could speed up the rehabilitation of the material in The Vault and poor old Joe Travers wouldn’t have to do it all by himself. That way, this release might have been on schedule!
[quote comment=”10020″]I would rather the purity of the original albums were maintained – it would cost pence to make the extra tracks an extra disk….typical pennypinching ZFT behaviour. I bet they won’t even let me part-ex my dodgy 80s remix copy!
PS WTF happened to “Absolutely Free”?
An entirely instrumental version thereof would be lovely![/quote]
I’ve long since given up attempting to make sense of the behavior of the ZFT. If the old adage was ever true – “Give the people what they want” – the ZFT have completely disregarded it. Think about it, when was the last time the ZFT released something you could truly get excited about? They appear bent on the piecemeal repackaging – albeit incomplete – of Zappa’s catalogue. I fear by the time they actually start to release material I can actually get excited about, large blocks of the Zappa fanbase may very well have joined Frank on his last tour.
Does anybody here know the mechanics and/or the process of releasing a ZFT product? Does ZFT have complete control over content, packaging, artwork, licensing, etc? Who is their distributor? Who manufactures the CDs? Does Ryko still have rights to the original album issues?
My thought is that if they had some kind of deal with Rhino or Nonesuch, perhaps they may not be as free to use their own methods like mastering or content choice. Gail & family gotta make a living, too. I am sure she doesn’t go out her way to make us fans pissed off. True, some of the choices have been puzzling to say the least- maybe the Joe’s Domage series should be cheaper as they are ‘fly on the wall’ type studies- but maybe it’s a helluva lot more complicated than we know to release this stuff.
[quote comment=”10047″]Does anybody here know the mechanics and/or the process of releasing a ZFT product? Does ZFT have complete control over content, packaging, artwork, licensing, etc? Who is their distributor? Who manufactures the CDs? Does Ryko still have rights to the original album issues?
My thought is that if they had some kind of deal with Rhino or Nonesuch, perhaps they may not be as free to use their own methods like mastering or content choice. Gail & family gotta make a living, too. I am sure she doesn’t go out her way to make us fans pissed off. True, some of the choices have been puzzling to say the least- maybe the Joe’s Domage series should be cheaper as they are ‘fly on the wall’ type studies- but maybe it’s a helluva lot more complicated than we know to release this stuff.[/quote]
AAAFANRAA = anywhere anytime and for absolutely no reason at all?
Which gives the impression that these posthumous releases are merely wreckless throw aways and spur of the moment deals.
I honestly doubt that there is much restricting the ZFT from releasing whatever it wants (aside from the 93 masters). They have released multiple mixes of the catalogue, as well as the complete Verve masters for FO + We’re Only in It For the Money (the mono and the Ryko 80’s mix).
And as far as distributors + disc manufacturers go, I doubt that they have any impact re: content… perhaps the pricing, which is another kettle of fish heads.
But if it is, like you say, a matter of Sloatman and Co. being restricted so that they can only release this sort of material, then that’s just another argument about why the tapes should be turned over to a larger company who can handle these complications, who can release material that’s not only wanted (Roxy etc.) but is also to guarantee high returns.
[quote post=”3348″]release material that’s not only wanted (Roxy etc.) but is also to guarantee high returns.[/quote]Dweezil has said ROXY is approaching (if his ex hasn’t erased the tapes…)
“One of these days, she going to erased every tape in the WORLD… the WORLD…. in the WORLD…..!
[quote comment=”10047″]I am sure she doesn’t go out her way to make us fans pissed off…[/quote]
I know she has gone [b]way[/b[ out of her way to piss me off!
way, way
Re:- my comment about instrumental “Absolutely Free” above. Barry Miles says he heard that, it ain’t some pipe dream of mine…..
In regards to these FZ Audio Documentaries in the “Project/Object” series. By now you either get it our you don’t. For those that have MOFO & Lumpy Money it should be clear what the deal is.
If for some reason any given fan that has given thorough analysis of such still might have a problem I don’t think you will ever get it.
Whatever happened to the story that the original tracks of the bass and drums had evaporated after not being properly stored?
I guess Frank needed some excuse to justify the lame remixes. BTW, I’m a younger fan and the 80s Ruben mix is the only version I have. After hearing some of the original mixes on Youtube, I can tell you the 80s mix is awful. “No, no, no” being the exception.
@Clark Gwent – I don’t think Absolutely Free could stand on its own as an instrumental album. Some of the tracks like “vegetable” “prunes” and “plastic people” would just be boring without the words.
[quote post=”3348″]Whatever happened to the story that the original tracks of the bass and drums had evaporated after not being properly stored?[/quote]
Whatever happened to the story of a fan understanding the difference between a 2 track safety master and a muli-track masters with holes in the them and what can be done with these 2 track safety masters as technology moves froward.
Plain and simple using a two track safety master was just not what was done to get remasters done with 1984 technology. Your question here displays more ignorance than FZs intent to get the project to sound as good as he can in 1984.
In 2010 engineering can get these 2 track safety masters to sound so much better than what FZ was planning and producing for the The Old Masters Box sometime in 1984.
I will never tire of linking to this article:
http://www.lukpac.org/~handmade/patio/misc/why.html
Serious question from a non-Mastering Engineer:
What technology was used to remaster this release that didn’t exist in 1984? My understanding of remastering is limited to multiband compression and equalisation. Now and then, there is only so much you can do with a 2 track master.
As a shitty recording engineer, I understand FZs comment that what you can do with things with 1984 technology is “Science Fiction”, but a lot of what Mastering Engineers do now involves pricey tube gear and multiband compression. Tell us your secrets!
P.S. Horses, horses, horses. Do the Watusi.
[quote comment=”10058″]In regards to these FZ Audio Documentaries in the “Project/Object” series. By now you either get it our you don’t. For those that have MOFO & Lumpy Money it should be clear what the deal is.
If for some reason any given fan that has given thorough analysis of such still might have a problem I don’t think you will ever get it.[/quote]
As a rabid Zappa completist, I certainly see the value of these FZ Audio Documentaries. Still, the ZFT, themselves, have spoken on many occasions about garnering a new audience for Zappa’s music. Are FZ Audio Documentaries really the way to accomplish this? Who besides older fans and freaks like myself would find mono mixes and backing tracks (minus the lyrics) at all interesting? Certainly, as a young fan of Zappa, I recall, I was far more interested in complete concerts, loud savage guitar solos, and his accompanying ensemble of musicians.
This is what I expect of the ZFT and Zappa Records if they truly seek that new youthful audience. As for moi, I’ll continue to pick up whatever they release.
It’s all gravy to me.
Albeit, expensive gravy.
Nice wing tip shoes — very trendy 😉
Your right wing tip what did happen to all those fans who understand muli-tracking, whatever that is?
Seems bob stone didn’t believe the tape wouldn’t hold up story.
Either way I’ll happy to finally get a copy of the original R&J.
Trendmonger/Graffiti On The Wall/Wing Tip Shoes, why do you even bother to appear here in just another obvious disguise?
http://www.zappa.com/messageboard/viewtopic.php?p=455222#p455222
On topic: Done with good analogue studio tape-machines the safety copy would be nearly 100% like the original. It would of course have been possible to make a good sounding digital 1:1 transfer from a safety copy mastertape for a CD release.
Frank could have done just that. But that was not his intention then. He treated his work like sculptures that could be shaped AAAFNRAA. So the then upcoming CD age gave him the opportunity to rework and reshape things. Which he again did for later release generations (the 1993 approved masters).
Back in those days all the possibilties for reworks where considered a benefit by nearly all producers and the consumers, too. Because it offered something more for your money, not just 1:1 what you already had bought decades before. Doing 1:1 remastered versions of original albums was considered the cheap decision from a marketing standpoint. I can’t remember anybody complaining when the drums/bass overdubbed and remixed versions came out.
So I can fully understand and appreciate Frank’s decisions he made back then.
Only today there is a reflection to the originals for several reasons:
1. Nostalgic reasons. We always strive to revive the experiences of our youth.
2. The originals weren’t bad.
3. For the people who own the material: they can sell the same things one more time.
Reasons No. 3 is the main reason, I think. This is combined with the fairy-tale that only today is it possible to do a working digital transfer.
Th.
Because “i’m an asshole, I’m an asshole, I’m an asshole, that’s right!”
[quote post=”3348″]Wing Tip Shoes, why do you even bother to appear here[/quote]
That is an interesting link. What seemed relevant in that message is what some lose in the context. Any given publisher can come along and report . It all does get out a message but the ones that wear a closely knit sweater to the Press Release is in their initial report are minimally rolling with a ball of clear and honest reporting.
What puzzles me is that a good portions of fans for so long need to ask themselves or the community so many questions regarding these Audio Documentaries. In regards to the Hole In The Tape vs Creative Multi-Tracking and Remastering decision FZ made in 1984 this Audio Documentary contains not only the original vinyl mix “BOSS First” but alternate mono mixes, other period nuggets including recordings dating back to studio Z, interviews, booklet in a CD case that is unique to the project even more so as compared to much as those chrome bumpers are to how they are non-existant on cars today.
Be it here or Zappa dot com the forum diatribe is what makes any optimistic fan wonder why they not only feel the need to ask so many questions as to what these Audio Documentaries represent and but also there extreme negativity on these projects and their price points. I for one attempt to raise issues that reiterate what should be obvious. I don;t go as far as some other that say I hear Barry Manilow has a good following and why not just join that camp for your entertainment but after all these years you have to wonder if a fan even still or ever has realized this is Frank Zappa’s work that we are talking about. The wisest thing I ever heard another long time Zappa fan I state “You either get it or you don’t” and that has nothing to do with the cost of a sack of potatoes”. Plain and simple this is just not another CD, it’s an FZ Audio/Documentary in the 40tirh anniversary project/object series. These are one of a kind items more so than any CDs ever created.
And yet but also the CD clocks in at over one hour.
What we can expect is that same fantastic level of production and engineering that we had in MOFO and Lumpy Money. I never sat around complaining about my $69.95 & $50.00 or the $10 discount rebate that came along at one point on one of those.
There is something I thoroughly enjoy when I listen to these Audio Documentaries. It’s a level of production that connects the composers work process. I gladly support that and want more where 40Tieth project/object feasibility is possible.
If that is not good enough for some of you cats there is so many places fro you to focus your energy on. The negativity does nothing at all for us fans that thoroughly enjoy these productions. What is obvious the complaints are more a game than anything else in your lives.
Now to be clear about the “rebate” line it was not so much a rebate but a credit towards Lumpy Money. Correct me if I am wrong but I believe people who purchased MOFO on Pre-Order got a $10 discount on their Lumpy Money Pre-Order.
Even though there is only 1 track dedicated to drums on the original BOSS First masters what can be done in 2010 where these old masters sound so much better than 1984 technology is what I had been getting at. Yes the original musicians and technology both had their limitations but here today as we heard with the 2 track safety of We’re Only In It For The Money the new millennium technology is far superior to 1984 remastering and audio processing FZ had been using. The sonics of HD transfer & mastering is beyond additional tracks for drums and new bass FZ was making production decisions on. Even the 1984 stuff is sounding so much better as heard in Lumpy Money.
[quote post=”3348″]The sonics of HD transfer & mastering is beyond additional tracks for drums and new bass FZ was making production decisions on. Even the 1984 stuff is sounding so much better as heard in Lumpy Money.[/quote]
This whole “beyond” scenario is just related to what you can get out of each individual master nit that 12 tracks of drums does not yield a higher level of dynamic range. Each analog master can sounds so much better today than it did in 1968 or 1984.
Yawn
Yes, Wing Tip Shoes, “You either get it or you don’t and that has nothing to do with the cost of a sack of potatoes”. As Zappa fans, we will pay what we have to in order to possess that latest disc, tape, record, etc. – sometimes many times over. It’s impossible to be a Zappa fan on the cheap. Even in this age of torrents. Hard drives fail. Files become corrupted. It’s important to have pristine copies when this occurs. Believe me, I would dump an mp3 vinyl sourced rip in exchange for a pristine Audio Documentary any time. Do they have the right to charge what the market will bear? Of course. Do I have to like it? No. But it the end I have to put up and shut up and fork over what they deem to be a charge worthy of the content. In the final analysis, just add it to the rest of the bank roll I’ve passed over for my optional entertainment over the last 30 or so years. Call it my own personal bias, though, but to me FZ was at his absolute best when live – the ZFT would be doing themselves, as well as the fanbase, a service if they focused primarily of the live Zappa experience.
“Either you get it or you dont” would also be an acceptable argument for Joe’s Domage and how’s its a part of the Corsaga series. Either way, it’s a shit release.
As fans, the ZFT should know that there are a few highly anticipated items that we were promised (Roxy, Dance, Fury, the Hot Rats remix, etc.). This in itself will produce a sense of disappointment and complaint when something is release THAT FAILS to be one of these anticipated releases.
Add the shabby treatment granted to us by the ZFT (litigation, etc.) and usual bile within the current Zappafan environment (aspergers?) to this disappointment and you will get a response which may not be so heart warming OR supportive to any digressions from what we’ve been promised.
Should we be more understanding to these projects? Does the Zappafan environment (as influenced by Sloatman’s presence) allow for that sort of sympathy?
I doubt it.
So even though more Zappa music is always good, we’ve been put in a situation whereby if a release is not on that checklist, it’s inherently not wanted and stinks of failure. It’s not fair, as they’re brilliant performances and all that, but that’s the sort of corner Sloatman painted herself into.
It all comes down to presentation and wretched PR, I guess…
That being said, an original mix of Ruben’s been something we’ve been pissing and moaning about for awhile. An obvious release and good to get out of the way. Kudos.
[quote post=”3348″]@Clark Gwent – I don’t think Absolutely Free could stand on its own as an instrumental album. Some of the tracks like “vegetable” “prunes” and “plastic people” would just be boring without the words.[/quote]
Certain instrumental versions of “Money” held surprises…..twould be neat to find out, using those selfsame critical faculties that some posters on here (present company excepted metafunj) suggest we gleefully abandon and become passive consumers. Is that what FZ wanted?
[quote comment=”10078″]”Either you get it or you dont” would also be an acceptable argument for Joe’s Domage and how’s its a part of the Corsaga series. Either way, it’s a shit release.
As fans, the ZFT should know that there are a few highly anticipated items that we were promised (Roxy, Dance, Fury, the Hot Rats remix, etc.). This in itself will produce a sense of disappointment and complaint when something is release THAT FAILS to be one of these anticipated releases.
Add the shabby treatment granted to us by the ZFT (litigation, etc.) and usual bile within the current Zappafan environment (aspergers?) to this disappointment and you will get a response which may not be so heart warming OR supportive to any digressions from what we’ve been promised.
Should we be more understanding to these projects? Does the Zappafan environment (as influenced by Sloatman’s presence) allow for that sort of sympathy?
I doubt it.
So even though more Zappa music is always good, we’ve been put in a situation whereby if a release is not on that checklist, it’s inherently not wanted and stinks of failure. It’s not fair, as they’re brilliant performances and all that, but that’s the sort of corner Sloatman painted herself into.
It all comes down to presentation and wretched PR, I guess…
That being said, an original mix of Ruben’s been something we’ve been pissing and moaning about for awhile. An obvious release and good to get out of the way. Kudos.[/quote]
The Piss & Moan factor is evident in each and every release and I see no reason as to the ROXY Video, Hot Rats 4Tieth, Dance Me This and Rage & The Fury being excluded from the extreme negative fanatical diatribes when they get a press release or is sitting in anyones’ library and played on whatever player is used at that period of time.
I for one like the Domage Series and welcome more. They are priced far below what the Concert Series & 4Tieth Series have been marketed at for a variety of reasoning but cost is not why I like them. Not for everyone but what projects are. Many fans in 1981 could care less about Sinister Footwear, Moggio , Elvelopes and Drowning Witch where they wanted more Dinah-Moe Humm and whatever HAD been coming from Ike Willis yellow knitted hat.
I do not see the cost of Vaulternative & Zappa Records merely as getting what the market will bear but more in line with an overall production feasibility on what the project costs to produce and what return on investment can bring that goes into the next project. Look at LSO that was a one shot deal. Frank had to spend lots of money on the overall project including lots of production time to remove bad notes played by various people. HE stated he just did not have money to get into another project like that.
More Concerts Series someone asks. They will come just as the overall project scope will come but dateline August 2002 the future looked Grey for multo-volume projects. With 4 months of pre-sales
for FZ:Z you had to wonder if we would ever get another multi-disk project. PAUSE….. It took 4 years and a ZPZ tour to get the next Multi-Disks ZFT Release. Official releases 71 through 77 are all single disk releases. ZPZ being out there on tour since Spring 2006 has moved project feasibility into multi-disk packages again. Anniversay Audio Documentaries are large scale productions that cost a bit more to produce than a Zappa Records Full Concert release. Documentaries or a double disk concert I for one am very happy that each and every project is no longer limited to single disk feasibility because the fans just do not support it related to production costs and return on investment models.
I look at the overall project feasibility of what is to come from Zappa & Vaulternative records. Between 2002 & 2010 we have gotten a good glimpse of the various form of projects that the fault could yield. Some hard cores could be just as happy with a Full Concert of each and every Shut Up composition but that Concert Series alone regardless of time line would lack scope of the composers larger work process. Now even if we got a sampling of Hammersmith Odeon, London, UK & Santa Monica Civic Auditorium December 11, 1980 early & late shows I understand we would find so much Conceptual Continuity to groove to but from my perspective just as entertaining and important to how the composer worked are these concept building blocks that can be heard in the Corsaga Series & 4Tieth Anniversary Audio Documentaries.
With 87 Official Albums more fans than not will not like everything but as we await any given Vault Gem why some feel the need to perpetually complain is beyond any sense of communal harmony that I even care to think that I am a part of. What is important to me is what the composer did. I will forever support the composer and anyone who pisses on that is just not my kinda people. I gladly take another 87 project and go to bat against the complaints of another community of negativity over the next 87 projects for the majority are complaint type folks and few live in harmony.
Frank wept.
Well yes, there would be some gripe-ing about the Roxy release, though it would probably be something like “what took ya so long?” Like I said, the atmosphere’ so toxic, the ZFT have such an irrepairably terrible relationship, the bile’s inevitable.
Anyhow, re: project’s limited by financial feasibility:
a) if you can release Greasy Love Songs (a single disc), theoretically, you can release Dance Me This OR Rage and the Fury.
b) if ZPZ is a fund raising venture, you could recoup more profits by simply not filming/recording the concerts and using the production costs that would be spent on ZPZ releases and using them to produce/sell ROXY
c) IF Zappa Records is so hard up for start up cash, then they should start selling off tapes to Rhino or whoever. Fuck, I mean, sign a __ record deal and use the advance to make the master and sell it.
Re: respecting the composer’s work and intent
a) the obvious point would be that Frank, the composer, told Sloat to get out of the business. He never asked her to release these tapes or go lawyer happy. It’s a Max Brod v. Kafka affair… perhaps us hearing these outtakes are deeply embarassing to him. I’m glad I get to hear them but at any rate, we’re already in trecherous waters re: respecting the composer.
b) the corsaga and the MO series are great IDEAS, but they will never be fully appreciated for what they are until the A list stuff is released. So the PRODUCER’S (Sloat’s) efforts are largely squandered… basically, she’s shooting herself in the foot everytime she releases something other than what she intitially promised. From a business standpoint, what she’s doing makes no sense.
Which is why what you’ve said makes no sense. Production costs? They dont have to record anything (ala LSO in 80’s), it’s all there, it’s all artifact. It’s all there for someone to develop, if not them (for whatever reason), someone else. Someone with the money, the knowhow. Just because her last name’s Zappa doesnt mean there’s any reason why she has to do it (from an artistic/business standpoint).
But we can argue this till we’re blue in the face, Trendy Shoes, but unless you’re able to provide a concrete reply to SELL THE FUCKING TAPES, you’re posts are just meaningless white noise.
[quote comment=”10085″]
Re: respecting the composer’s work and intent
a) the obvious point would be that Frank, the composer, told Sloat to get out of the business. He never asked her to release these tapes or go lawyer happy. It’s a Max Brod v. Kafka affair… perhaps us hearing these outtakes are deeply embarassing to him. I’m glad I get to hear them but at any rate, we’re already in trecherous waters re: respecting the composer.[/quote]
All I have to do is to listen to Frank’s official lifetime output and I will be a happy man for the rest of my life.
Most of the posthumous releases got me frustrated. That didn’t happen when he was alive and responsible. So I will try to avoid the frustration in the future.
Th.
[quote comment=”10087″]
Trendy – if you prefer this commercialized artwork to Schenkel’s original, that’s just another proof that you are a rabid nut.[/quote]
I concur, although I prefer less harsh characterizations.
I think this discussion has been flogged to death so I’ll say no more.
When I look at Official Releases 63 through 87 I say thank you very much Gail Zappa. Yes there are some of those long awaited projects that I want just as much as anyone but certainly some have been delivered. Need I remind anyone for the countless time how the Uncle Meat Movie was advertised on Mothermania in 1968 and took another two decades to get released. From my perspective “Dance Me This” should be co-ordinated with a live ensemble and dance production and “Rage & The Fury” has had it’s own set of severely unfortunate legal entanglements that have delegated a portion of the the material pretty much to that of ZFT family archive.
Now as far as Cal Schenkel. Just how many times did FZ use Cal Schenkel for Official Albums 1 through 62? Hmmmmm far less than the majority but giving consideration to an Anniversary release they are separate projects and in looking at the first two the art work and layouts were home runs as far as I am concerned and there is no Donald Roller Wilson in there either an he surely made some landmark album covers for FZ. On top of that Cal had done some work for Ryko & Polygram Diversified Entertainment both of witch I do not have good feelings about as to how those corporations had treated the Zappa family.
The Pre-Order stage gets a good portion of everyone dander up. Pet Pollen for the masses of Zappa fanatics that look fr reasons to appreciate or reasons to get on yet another negative bandwagon. Regardless of what model of appreciation or lack there of exists we have 87 Official Albums and another 87 or so on the way. I bet they will all be fantastic. It’s Zappa. 87 Versions of “Dinah-Moe Humm” is clearly not what GZ & Company are developing. Projects 63 through 170 surely look to be a collection of the worlds finest entertainment and the treasured art that I frame as a necessary part of my lifestyle.
“Maybe I’ll just kill myself, I just don’t care anymore.”
I have an idea it is like football-hooliganism: a few idiots destroying the fun for eveyone else that likes football (doens’t include me btw): the never satisfied complainers who don’t agree on anything the ZFT releases even though in most cases they never heven heard it before they wrote. Who con’t like surprises. Who don’t like anything that is lovingly released officially which they would pay triple prices for if these were bootlegs. Who seem to have a problem with the way Gail likes to give publicity to as yet unreleased works.
However, some of your complaints are now no longer necessary as on the zappa.com website the complete tracklisting including recording information is now published, so you know exactly what you will be getting for the 21 dollars (which is about half the price of regular new releases in the funny country I live in so I don’t really see the complaints about the pricing either, especially considdering these are releases that aren’t sold in hit-parade/MTV kind of music quantities).
I know – just as I like to mention that the sour complainers here don’t HAVE to buy the stuff they don’t like (in which case for them nothing is lost compared to when they would not be released, while a large number of fans are happy to get them) I am also not obliged to actually READ all this negativism – but face it: if one wants to participate in a conversation here one has to read what is happening and only finds out afterward what the messages say. And the overload of rediculous complaints about totally everything and anything the ZFT does has made it impossible for me to enjoy any sharing of information and opinions with others.
I hope someday people will wake up. There is NO artist in the world that still has so many fantastic releases after their death – we can only be grateful to still enjoy unheard work of FZ so many years after his untimely death.
That was my two cents worth.
and apologies for the typo’s.
[quote comment=”10429″]and apologies for the typo’s.[/quote]
That goes with the territory – your on Trendmonger’s turf here.
[quote comment=”10428″]a few idiots destroying the fun for eveyone else…who don’t agree on anything the ZFT releases…Who don’t like anything that is lovingly released officially which they would pay triple prices for if these were bootlegs. Who seem to have a problem with the way Gail likes to give publicity…the overload of rediculous complaints about totally everything and anything the ZFT does has made it impossible for me to enjoy any sharing of information and opinions with others.[/quote]
Indeed, a card carrying member of the ZFT fan club, methinks.
A few points of contention:
* Zappa bootlegs and field recordings are shared freely between fans (via Zappateers, for instance) thus putting bootleggers out of business and encouraging fans to purchase official releases.
* It is Gail and the ZFT which have made promises about certain releases (Roxy concert, promised downloads), then not delivered. Worse yet, she muddles whatever discussion with her incessant Zappa-speak (which coming from FZ made some sense, but from Gail is complete and total nonsense).
* In addition, the ZFT releases are inconsistent (as opposed to lovingly released). Some releases seem well thought out and well devised: Imaginary Diseases, Buffalo, Trance-Fusion, Wazoo, and MOFO (4 Disc Version). Other releases seem to have no evident purpose whatsoever: Joe’s Corsage, Domage, Xmasage, Menage, and One Shot Deal. Then there are the re-releases of the original Mothers compilation album, Mothermania, with original artwork as a download; then the re-titled, Ruben and the Jets album, Greasy Love Songs. Indeed, inconsistency is the key word here.
It is obvious, at least to me, that the ZFT is far more concerned with the creation of a Brand than FZ’s actual legacy.
That’s my two cents worth.
Meanwhile, does anybody have a detailed review of the bonus material? I’m quite familiar with the original vinyl, and except for Stuff Up The Cracks (and the artwork), it was never a favorite…
[quote comment=”10428″]I know – just as I like to mention that the sour complainers here don’t HAVE to buy the stuff they don’t like …[/quote]
I only complain about stuff that I already bought and paid for (including ZPZ concerts).
[quote comment=”10433″]… then the re-titled, Ruben and the Jets album, Greasy Love Songs. Indeed, inconsistency is the key word here.[/quote]
Don’t forget that there probably is a rights-conflict with Ryko. Only they can release a Ruben and the Jets with original title and based on FZ’s approved master (the remix with overdubs). So the ZFT has to release something different and call it different. They could release a mono version of Absolutely Free and would have to name it different. Does a mono version of Hot Rats exist? We won’t get the original albums restored and remastered from the ZFT, I’m afraid.
Th.
Th.
just read the ‘detailed’ track list on their off. site, a great improvement over the usual Sloatmanspeak. Clear and descriptive, what’s more (aside from the audio collages of existing material by Travers) it looks like exciting stuff, cant wait to torrent it!
Aside: I’ve added the album to the discography section, so feel free to rate and/or comment there on this release.
[quote comment=”10436″]
I only complain about stuff that I already bought and paid for (including ZPZ concerts).
[quote comment=”10433″]… then the re-titled, Ruben and the Jets album, Greasy Love Songs. Indeed, inconsistency is the key word here.[/quote]
Don’t forget that there probably is a rights-conflict with Ryko. Only they can release a Ruben and the Jets with original title and based on FZ’s approved master (the remix with overdubs). So the ZFT has to release something different and call it different. They could release a mono version of Absolutely Free and would have to name it different. Does a mono version of Hot Rats exist? We won’t get the original albums restored and remastered from the ZFT, I’m afraid.
Th.
Th.[/quote]
Thinman, good points. Like you, I only critique those releases I’ve actually bought and paid for (in some cases many times over). In some cases, one cannot have too many copies of some of those posthumous releases – given their rarity, difficulty in obtaining, and price.
Still, why the need to re-release albums we already have, which new fans can readily obtain an audio vinyl rip from the internet? Audio documentaries like MOFO I can understand, yes, but Greasy Love Songs? Mighty thin pickings for $21 plus postage and handling (which comes to well over thirty dollars, in total). And as a completist, of course, I’ll buy it, still, I cannot help but feel the ZFT has “Corsaged” me yet again.
When are the ZFT going to release something up to par with Zappa’s status and legacy? Something to really knock the fan’s socks off?
If you ask me, they should keep to releasing entire concerts, or at very least, release an anthology of FZ’s Palladium shows akin to his YCDTOSA series. Now, that would both appease the fanbase and sell like hotcakes.
Pro: The original mix intact of one of the best albums of all time. That’s all that is needed
Con: Bonus tracks are weak. Terrible version of Valarie.
Awful packaging. The greatest album cover art (Cal Schenkel) replaced by the worst album cover I’ve ever seen. Who cares about Cheech Marin’s audition? Self-indulgent. Is it so hard to focus on the guys that actually put this masterpiece together (Roy Estrada, Artie Tripp, Ray Collins)? $21?!?!?! They should be sending each of us a copy for free after all the money we’ve spent over the years. Terrible title – what’s wrong with Cruising with Ruben and the Jets? Tired of the people who weren’t around to support this when it actually happened kissing the ass of the family for every time they honor us with a release of material they’ve been sitting on for years. Where’s “An Evening with Wild Man Fischer” and “Bat Chain Puller”?
[quote comment=”10660″]Bonus tracks are weak. Terrible version of Valarie. Awful packaging. The greatest album cover art (Cal Schenkel) replaced by the worst album cover I’ve ever seen. Who cares about Cheech Marin’s audition? Self-indulgent. Is it so hard to focus on the guys that actually put this masterpiece together (Roy Estrada, Artie Tripp, Ray Collins)? Terrible title – what’s wrong with Cruising with Ruben and the Jets?[/quote]
I have to agree with many of the points you make, OnceAFan. It seems each time the ZFT re-releases an album by the original Mothers, the input of the original members (Roy Estrada, Artie Tripp, Ray Collins, Jimmy Carl Black, Bunk Gardner, Motorhead Sherwood, Don Preston, Ian Underwood) are marginalized. Their contributions are found in the very smallest print (if at all), while Zappa’s contribution takes up most of the booklet and liner notes with photographs. Of course, this is of little surprise to me. With ZFT’s active revisionist view of Mothers of Invention history, by placing each and every bandmate of Zappa’s in the role of mere employee. Otherwise, they would have to acknowledge that FZ’s bandmates were also creative collaborators. Why do you think there is such rancor between the various alumni and the ZFT? Everyone wants to be acknowledged for their creative input, their creative collaborations. To be denied that would piss anybody off.
Why the new cover instead of Cal Schenkel’s masterpiece? No doubt for the same reason for the new name, so that the ZFT are not in copyright conflict with Ryko.
Lastly, I can’t see how the ZFT have the audacity to call this re-release an AudioDocumentary along the lines of a MOFO. What does Cheech Marin have to do with the Mothers? It’s a stretch. I’d rather hear from the musicians who made the album, but, of course, the arrogant stupidity of the ZFT has made that impossible. Perhaps for the Uncle Meat AudioDocumentary they’ll interview Tommy Chong?