Der Spiegel, on the day of the ZFT vs Arf Society/Zappanale trial:
Mother Of Intervention: Zappa Festival Defends Itself from… Zappa.
Quoth Goil Zeepee:
“One of the reasons you file a trademark is to protect the works of a person,” Gail Zappa told SPIEGEL ONLINE in a telephone interview. “I felt we were getting into territory where we were putting the audience at risk in terms of who Frank was. You become concerned.”
Thomas Dippel:
Dippel says that the Zappanale has long tried to get the kind of official rubber stamp that Gail Zappa insists is available. He claims that letters have been sent and that Zappanale people even met with Gail in Amsterdam at the beginning of the 1990s. He also says that he invited the Zappa family — including Gail, Dweezil and Moon — to an unveiling of a Zappa statue that now graces Bad Doberan.
Gail — who refers to the statue as an “impish creature” that “doesn’t look like Frank Zappa unless you argue that putting a moustache on any face looks like Frank Zappa” — says that very little communication has taken place with the Zappanale.
I guess you know where our sympathies lie, right?
“One of the reasons you file a trademark is to protect the works of a person” (Widow of Frank Zappa)
„You can have my gun when you can pry it loose from my cold, dead hand“ (Charlton Heston)
Nowaday’s a woman’s got to hit a man.
Oh and for those interested to know the verdict: a decision is expected within about three months. I’m quite curious to see the outcome of this…
[quote comment=”429″]“One of the reasons you file a trademark is to protect the works of a person” (Widow of Frank Zappa)
„You can have my gun when you can pry it loose from my cold, dead hand“ (Charlton Heston)[/quote]
“You either survive your parents or you kill them.” (urbangraffito)
@urbangraffito: How many versions of “The Idiot Bastard Son” are there again? 😉
[quote comment=”437″]@urbangraffito: How many versions of “The Idiot Bastard Son” are there again? ;-)[/quote]
Altogether or just related to this post?
hmm, rather than writing another 10 page tirade against Gail, anyone want to say what Frank thought about the festival? or did he not think anything of it? or was he begrudgingly accepting of the festival?
Hmmm. I thought Frank was dead about 5 years prior to the first festival, but I never particularly gave a fuck about math, which I always thought voting was a waste of time.
is why
is what’s missing from my last post.
Along with compassion, understanding, empathy, and giving a shit.
Gail doesn’t even suck. She sues. Fuck her, Sempschi. No one else will.
@urbangraffito: Sorry, that remark should have been a joke. It was meant into the direction of “You either survive your parents or you kill them.” and the ZFT, i.e. the sons of Frank Zappa.
[quote comment=”442″]hmm, rather than writing another 10 page tirade against Gail, anyone want to say what Frank thought about the festival? or did he not think anything of it? or was he begrudgingly accepting of the festival?[/quote]
As I recall, Frank didn’t much care one way or other concerning the festival. His entire reaction to hearing about a bunch of German fans putting on a festival in honor of his music was to laugh and then move on to the next subject at hand…In his lifetime, to Frank at least, it was always about the music…with Gail, on the other hand, since Frank’s death, it’s always been about money (money money money money money money money money money money money money money money money….)
[quote comment=”443″]Hmmm. I thought Frank was dead about 5 years prior to the first festival, but I never particularly gave a fuck about math, which I always thought voting was a waste of time.[/quote]
Actually, the festival started in 1990, three years before Zappa’s decease happened (take a look here http://www.en.zappanale.de/index_en.html under the menu “Retrospects”). He was aware of the existence of the Arf-Society and the festival existence.
From http://www.united-mutations.com/ :
“In the meantime,
German correspondent B.W.says:
Hello there…
appearantly things don’t go too well for Gail in court. A decision from the Landgericht Düsseldorf will take at least 3 months and so far the judge has said that the Zappa logo and the zappanale logo are quite clearly two different things which people will not confuse. Also the judge pointed out that the ZFT knew all along over the last 18 years that the Zappanale festival took place and did nothing against it.
There only seems to be a slim chance for the ZFT to win this case.
—
let’s hope that B.W. is right… “
BRAVO to the arguments of the Landgericht Düsseldorf !
Surely the Zappanale aren’t violating trademark law with their moustache logo? Last time I checked it had a bird in flight look to it which is different to the Matt Groening (I think) designed logo that the ZFT uses. I hope the arf society bring that up and the Dali cover of Zappa Wazoo that somebody else on here mentioned. “Call Andre Cholmondeley!”
Basically, Goil Zeepee is telling the general public that us dumb-ass Zappa fans might get confused when confronted with Zappanale’s logo, seeing as how its conceptual designers had the unmitigated audacity to depict an Imperial moustache — much like the one FZ sported.
Comedy Gold.
[quote post=”51″]Actually, the festival started in 1990, three years before Zappa’s decease happened (take a look here http://www.en.zappanale.de/index_en.html under the menu “Retrospects”). He was aware of the existence of the Arf-Society and the festival existence.[/quote]
Thanks for the correction.
Gail appears to be a pointy-headed Scott Adams creation, incapable of fully appreciating the battle between the pigs and the ponies or that it doesn’t matter in the phynal phaze of the last act in the pharce of civilization as far as the briny myth of the One Note is concerned. There is no concern in the Aybe Sea, except among the phynancial pimps and whores and handlers. Life goes on and death does too.
When she loses this suit, it could be a great for artists with no commercial potential.
She was never asked to shut up and play that guitar.
Irony is the mother of introspection
Osama bin happy enough kicking ass and calling names
[quote comment=”452″]Basically, Goil Zeepee is telling the general public that us dumb-ass Zappa fans might get confused when confronted with Zappanale’s logo, seeing as how its conceptual designers had the unmitigated audacity to depict an Imperial moustache — much like the one FZ sported.
Comedy Gold.[/quote]
Wait a god darned minute, Barry. Goil Zeepee just might have a point (even if it’s on top of her head). Fronk Zeepee had facial hair. I have facial. Fronk Zeepee had a nose. I have a nose. Fronk Zeepee had eyebrows. I have eyebrows. Fronk Zeepee had ten fingers, ten toes, two arms and two legs. I also have all these things.
All right, wait for the epiphany (the pointy-headed one, that is):
urbangraffito is Fronk Zeepee.
Kneel before Zod.
Dear Zod – I pray to you:
TO ARMS! TO ARMS!
Hooray! That’s great
Two legs ain’t bad
Unless there’s a crate
They ship the parts
To mama in
For souvenirs: two ears (Get Down!)
Not his, not hers (but what the hey?)
The Good Book says:
“It gotta be that way!”
But their book says:
“REVENGE THE CRUSADES . . .
With whips ‘n chains
‘N hand grenades . . . ”
TWO ARMS? TWO ARMS?
Have another and another
Our God says:
“There ain’t no other!”
Pleasqe : put your arms down. No fanatism. No slaughter.
It’s better to talk than to kill.
Basics:
There’s a difference between the US & EU way of thinking about copy rights. So be it. Let’s see who will win, the creative way.
OK, funny & cynical at once.
There were men on the moon. OK? It happened.
The ultimate solution is not that much ” the ocean”.
It’s sunlanding.
Roland, sunlanding might happen to be:
Combing FZ and the great German ( industrial ) band FM Einheit.
http://www.fmeinheit.org/
Naval aviation in art?
[quote comment=”458″]Pleasqe : put your arms down. No fanatism. No slaughter.
It’s better to talk than to kill.
Basics:
There’s a difference between the US & EU way of thinking about copy rights. So be it. Let’s see who will win, the creative way.[/quote]
Ultimately, there’s very little difference between the US and EU way of thinking (it’s all to the right). The basis of all property rights is theft. Justified theft. All rights throughout history have come at the expense of someone else (very little, if at all, has changed). Look to the recent riots in France as an example. Or the Watts or Detriot or the Seattle WTO riot in the US. Or the whole FLQ fiasco in Canada. Rights given. Rights taken away. Who is even at the table playing this game?
So Gail and the ZFT want more rights. At whose expense? Yours? Mine? Both? Is this whole “Zappa legacy” just a smoke screen so that she can make each and every black note FZ composed into a dollar sign?
Think about it.
That’s why I hope Zappanale wins. A new word needs to be entered into the ZFT vocabulary:
humble – adj – conscious of one’s failings; modest, unpretentious; unimportant.
Yep, Urbangr.
The discussion on copy rights & the like happens to be complex. Earlier I explained on this blog how copy rights – contrary to common wisdom – are not an anglosaxon invention ( they were first developed in France). However the anglo saxon world ( much more commercial than continental Europe) developed them much further.
Question is : are copy rights hindering or putting a spur on the badly needed innovation? My idea: they block innovation.
In case you would be interested, just have a look at the discussions on this issue on the EU web portal for scientific research:
http://cordis.europa.eu/en/home.html
I’m aware of this as a result of my interest a couple of years ago for the link between innovation and eco development. And again as for music: nobody ever had a look at the link between musical innovation & copy rights.
I’ve read on the United Mutations site that Gail’s position is not very good. It might or might not be true, but I wonder: what happens if she loses?… Will she say “sorry”, and life will go on? Or will she attack on another way? Or?…
[quote comment=”465″]I’ve read on the United Mutations site that Gail’s position is not very good. It might or might not be true, but I wonder: what happens if she loses?… Will she say “sorry”, and life will go on? Or will she attack on another way? Or?…[/quote]
Whether or not she (or the ZFT) wins or loses this case versus the Arf Society, Balint, in my mind she has already lost, BIG TIME. If she can sour the likes of me — a Zappa fan and consumer of Zappa records, tapes, CDs, DVDs, whatnot, for my entire adult life — to the ZFT and their antics, what does that say for the rest of Zappa fandom?
Will the ZFT ever humble itself to say “sorry” to the countless fans it has insulted? We will have to wait and see. Stranger things have happened.
I fully agree, Urbangr.
The Americans might be helpful in providing FZ a place in musical history.
So far they’re not really taking that job seriously.
See: http://www.otherminds.org/
[quote comment=”465″]I’ve read on the United Mutations site that Gail’s position is not very good. It might or might not be true, but I wonder: what happens if she loses?… Will she say “sorry”, and life will go on? Or will she attack on another way? Or?…[/quote]
She won’t say “sorry” and life will not go on…! We are doomed…!
Being humble & / = the way forward.
1. As KUR rightly says: this blog happens to be about a lot of blabla.
Our German friends made it. They just did it.
We all should congratulate them wholeheartedly for this courageous initiative.
2. The way forward. Compare FZ legacy with new jazz legacy. In Germany.
For many, many years the Moers Festival was the Hohe Messe of contemporary jazz. All people involved just met over there.
And now? Moers has been revitalised. With the help from German public radio.
It’s there again, it just pops up again.
And hów. Pfinsten 9 – 12 May.
See: http://www.moers.de/festival
Coincidences are windows to another world
[quote comment=”471″][quote comment=”465″]I’ve read on the United Mutations site that Gail’s position is not very good. It might or might not be true, but I wonder: what happens if she loses?… Will she say “sorry”, and life will go on? Or will she attack on another way? Or?…[/quote]
She won’t say “sorry” and life will not go on…! We are doomed…![/quote]
If Gail were my daughter I’d…
blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah*
*please note: nothing inferred within the prior block of blahs were meant in anyway to infringe upon any material copyrighted by the zft.
in the case(s) of statues of other should-look-like-FZ works of art I cannot do other than give Gail Zappa right. These things ARE the work of love but dont look as avant gard like they had to if they would like to represent the idea of FZs work. same with the logo of the zappanale. its got no professional design and outlook. it looks like dogshit. sorry. sorry again. how would you all like to be surrounded by look-alikes, running around with with beards like FZ? you would feel aped and shimpanzed. a lot of Zappa-fans are stuck in the eighties. sorry
[quote comment=”468″]The Americans might be helpful in providing FZ a place in musical history.
So far they’re not really taking that job seriously.
See: http://www.otherminds.org/%5B/quote%5D
Not sure what you mean but Other Minds is no one to pick on.
We can thank Charles Amirkhanan for the re-discovery and recording of Conlon Nancarrow and so much more.
[quote comment=”475″]in the case(s) of statues of other should-look-like-FZ works of art I cannot do other than give Gail Zappa right. These things ARE the work of love but dont look as avant gard like they had to if they would like to represent the idea of FZs work. same with the logo of the zappanale. its got no professional design and outlook. it looks like dogshit. sorry. sorry again. how would you all like to be surrounded by look-alikes, running around with with beards like FZ? you would feel aped and shimpanzed. a lot of Zappa-fans are stuck in the eighties. sorry[/quote]
By reading your comment one might think you are suggesting that we Zappa freaks are overly concerned with facial hair. This couldn’t be further from the truth, friend. Unlike the ZFT who hire the business elites to work for them (ad agencies, berger kahn, etc) and give their business a professional design and outlook (and thus hopefully make more money from the FZ legacy) — Zappanale’s logo was never meant to garner more business; rather, a gathering of individuals who share a love for a certain composer’s music (i.e. Arf Society, get it, Hermann? Not, Art Inc.) It seems the only person concerned with the imperial is one, Gail Zappa. Myself, in all the years I’ve been a Zappa freak, I’ve never felt like growing myself an imperial. It’s never been about facial hair.
Peter, I truly appreciate the Other Minds initiative. They’re great & courageous.
Just this, for instance:
http://radiom.org/detail.php?et=music&omid=OMF.1999.03.26.04
That’s the San Fr. Bay Area. Always been a sort of remote area, however extremely innovative. Just have a look at Mills College. Xenakis, Roscoe Mitchell, F. Frith etc. , etc.
That’s both great and exceptional in the US. A way of focussing on great musical art, slightly disconnected from the US universities.
The human way. Just look & listen.
FZ related. They seem to overlook FZ.
Come on.
Just listen:
http://rchrd.com/mfom/wp/
OK, we are haughty. And that’s the mirror image of being too rich.
We have a luxury problem.
In case you would like to discover new music the other around, ie the French way:
http://inactuelles.over-blog.com
Here’s an idea. Could it be that Gail Z’s behaviour is some kind of passive/aggressive revenge on a husband she grew to hate?
Whatever went on it her marriage, nothing I’ve read has ever pointed to it being any other than pretty miserable for her.l The quote she gave once that she and Frank got along by saying as little as possible to each other, paradoxically, says a lot.
Did they ever go on holiday, did he ever go out, what were her memories?
Having to sublimate your personality to a genius like FZ for 25 years cannot be easy. Especially as the fanatical followers can seem a trifle unhinged at times.
B Grant, Scotland
Based on the notions raised by B Grant of Scotland, which are as plausible as anything else, what is one to make of GZ’s most recent declarations:
“My obligation, which I cannot be relieved of by anyone other than Frank Zappa, is to protect the intent and integrity of his music,” she says. “That’s my job. I have no choice.”
(http://www.spiegel.de/international/germany/0,1518,546288,00.html)
Well, didn’t Frank Zappa tell her to get out of the business? What does she mean when she says “That’s my job. I have no choice.”
Her “job?” Who hired her? Did FZ hire her when he said “get out of the business?”
She has “no choice?” What kind of crap is that?
She cannot be relieved of her “job” by anyone else but Frank Zappa (who is dead and before he died, told her to get out of the business and find another “job”)
Is Gail being coerced by someone (on planet?) Is she responding to voices in her head, or spirits from the great beyond?
Sounds like slavery to me. Mentally ill slavery, that is.
SLAVES BE TRUE TO YOUR MASTER?
There’s a real FZ sentiment for ya….
That’s personal, B Grant.
As for personal things:
Do not interfere. Do not make an attempt to an interpretation. All individuals, all couples are diferent, the personal way. Do not think that self knowledge or limited experience might be helpful to explore other people & minds.
Essential is: broadening the spectre:
– Innovation is about having a new idea. & taking it further.
– More important, much more both down to earth & human:
it’s about stopping, refusing to have & continue serving an old idea.
See for instance:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edwin_Land
Just one more example.
Journalism and where it came from:
http://www.kapingamarangi.be/index.php?itemid=1613
From a very cleaver Belgian journalist’s blog. Bram S. that is : kapingamarangi.
First have a look.
Now just think two steps further.
We’re coming to the beginning of a new era wherein the development of the inner self will be the most important factor. It’s got to be new, it’s got to progress, it’s got to evolve. THERE MUST BE GROWTH!
Did anybody dance?
Do you already happen to be tired? Just in case: don’t read this.
Innovation won’t come from the , let’s say: traditional areas. US & EU.
It might pop up in Canada. Or in Romania.
Just have a look at another great Romanian composer & woman:
Ana-Maria AVRAM
http://meltingpot.fortunecity.com/utah/549/avram.html
[quote comment=”486″]Peter, I truly appreciate the Other Minds…
FZ related. They seem to overlook FZ.[/quote]
Thanks for the link, Bernard. Me, I’m just a little tired of all this American Composer crap. Frank chose to make a living in rock ‘n roll and died too young to prove himself as a modern classical composer.
Not sure, “Peter”.
I do not happen to be FZ Fan.
I’m nobody’s Fan.
Fan just means, is an abbreviation of : fanatic. It’s as simple as that.
Shifting from major to minor, the humble way:
Fans, let’s say fans should ask themselves one question : how to take it further?
Peter, let’s start a reasoning the other way around.
The influence of FZ on a great contemporary Russian composer, Alfred Schnittke. He, A. Sch., died almost 10 years ago.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alfred_Schnittke
“While he considers the possibility of a synthesis of classical and popular genres “pure utopia,” he has dabbled in rock and jazz instrumentation, and enjoyed the orchestral music of Frank Zappa.”
I’m using the chicken to measure it
I always thought a fan is found in a car to ventilate the inside.
[quote comment=”523″]Based on the notions raised by B Grant of Scotland, which are as plausible as anything else, what is one to make of GZ’s most recent declarations:
“My obligation, which I cannot be relieved of by anyone other than Frank Zappa, is to protect the intent and integrity of his music,” she says. “That’s my job. I have no choice.”
(http://www.spiegel.de/international/germany/0,1518,546288,00.html)
Well, didn’t Frank Zappa tell her to get out of the business? What does she mean when she says “That’s my job. I have no choice.”
Her “job?” Who hired her? Did FZ hire her when he said “get out of the business?”
She has “no choice?” What kind of crap is that?
She cannot be relieved of her “job” by anyone else but Frank Zappa (who is dead and before he died, told her to get out of the business and find another “job”)
Is Gail being coerced by someone (on planet?) Is she responding to voices in her head, or spirits from the great beyond?
Sounds like slavery to me. Mentally ill slavery, that is.
SLAVES BE TRUE TO YOUR MASTER?
There’s a real FZ sentiment for ya….[/quote]
As I have said many times before, every time Gail opens her mouth, she does herself and her late husband’s music a big disservice. She should take his advice. Get out of the business. Get herself a lover and…
I ´ve read that too. Frank told Gail to sell the stuff and “get oiut of business”. Also, there is this Ike Willis interview, where Frank gave Ike the permission to use all his material.
Someone here told me, that it is naive to say so, but I still think Gail just wants her sons career pushed forward by being the only ones to play Zappamusic. I still don´t understand why she nade this deal with some record companies, selling parts of recorded Zappamusic to people like Gene Simmons (***hole), the producers of George Clinton and U2 (a Band I don´t like). She said in an interview, that those people can put FZ as second composer credidtet, so it looks like FZ wrote together with Bono or Gene or George, or whoever. So I think it is very strange when she talks about protecting the work of her late husband.
how did I ever miss THIS thread?
Can you still rembember what the Zappa family said after his death?
“Play his music!”
No one reacts to my comments, so no one seems to read it. Maybe there is nothing new what I put here in.
It´s like witchcraft. As soon as I write a comment, every thread seems to stop. Maybe my comments are not good enough. Anyway I tried.
[quote comment=”1669″]…No one reacts to my comments…[/quote]
Kiss my lily white american ass!
How’s that?
[quote comment=”1658″]how did I ever miss THIS thread?[/quote]
You must have been in some ZFT induced coma, Joe ntj…welcome back to the land of the living…where asshole fans roam free!
[quote comment=”1670″][quote comment=”1669″]…No one reacts to my comments…[/quote]
Kiss my lily white american ass!
How’s that?[/quote]
I see. You are lookin´for homosexual relationship? Just try another forum. Anyway, Since you american fans seems to dislike german Zappafans or maybe all european or african or asian Zappafans, you shouldn´t forget that FZ sold more records in Europe than in your Country. I hope that at least jews are allowed to parcipate in this all-american discussion.
Just for the record, I am an American fan and have no dislikes for any particular nationality. There are a few individuals from various parts of the planet that I could do without, but then they probably feel the same about me…
[quote comment=”1687″]…homosexual relationship…jews…[/quote]
and bears, oh my! we’re not in kansas anymore!